By: Shannon and Carolyn
Hi guys!
It’s Shannon and Carolyn here. This week we will be leading some discussion in the tutorial about the place of women in medieval society. We will focus in particular on the themes of the readings for this week that broach the influence of the Bible and Christian literature on society’s view of women and the greater domestic role of women and what their day to day lives would have been like. We are very excited to talk to you about this topic as we think it serves as a fascinating comparison between the medieval world and our lives today.
So in the first reading we observed that
medieval women were theologically mythicised by the Bible and writers who
idealised qualities of women like obedience and virginity. Did they have unrealistic
standards or what?
Women had the lowest social standing in
medieval society, they had basically no economic or political rights and their
lives were tied to their marital status and their domestic roles. They were
used as peace offerings between quarrelling families for social status and
honour. Basically, men were the ones who worked, brought in the food for the
family and the women’s purpose was to look after the house and children. They
were considered stupid and vain and men worked to ensure that they were constantly
occupied because it was thought that if they had enough time for freedom of
thought they were so weak they were sure to become corrupted by impure
thoughts. The emphasis is very clearly placed upon a woman’s portrayal in the
Bible to ensure they remain pure, and marriage was essential in order for women
to fulfil their duties to God or risk being an outcast. Interesting fact: Men
were, on average, 10 years older than their wives (because men needed to reach
the ‘perfect age’ and women had to be wed young in order to avoid perversion)
A few questions we would like you to consider about this topic are:
1. What impression did you get of the role of women from the excerpts in the first reading? How much have these expectations changed in our society today?
2. How difficult do you think it would be to live similarly to medieval women? Would you be happy to just put up with having to live like that?
3. What is your impression of the cult of Mary? Do you think it had any realistic impact on the lives of women?
4. Do you think that the practises around marriage and childrearing were fair? How do you think they could have been improved? Would society have survived as well if women had been given a say or would it have been more successful?
5. In what ways were women shown to be families’ and husbands’ ‘property’?
We look forward to hearing your thoughts and questions and seeing you in our tutorial!
Thanks,
Shannon and Carolyn.
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(a couple of images added by Diana)
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| Christine de Pisan |
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| Medieval lovers hunting |
Overall from the readings, I would use words such as oppression, confinement and control to describe the position of women in medieval society. They didn't have much liberty and it appeared that through time it became more constricting for example, after marriage then husbands started to control what the wife owned and used it through his lifetime.
ReplyDeleteFrom the first reading it focused a lot on virginity and the whole notion of being "pure" although it did reflect that one can atone for sins (such as Mary Magdalene). Women were expected to stay at home, they did not have education and were encouraged not to ill-speak nor hear. Their marriage was essentially for creating children, from the texts it seems that pleasure had nothing to do with it.
I didn't really get too much out of the cult of Mary apart from the fact that it is not realistic, just the most preferable ideal.
Marriage was really for two things; child bearing and family peace/ unities/ business. It all appears to be an expensive game and an attempt to increase ones status.
Furthermore, women are very much so seen as the property of the man who control "naturally" over the weaker and inferior woman. Men wanted to keep them inside and restrain their movements and thoughts (hence why needle and lacework were encouraged).
I think if women of that time were given more of a say, society and the fertility rate would be dramatically low, not because women were not capable of their own thought but due to the fact that they would more than likely reject people that would ask for their hand in marriage. However, because they were forced and belittled, which is unjust, there was an increase in child birth which is good for society. I wouldn't like to live in that time, the feeling of being totally powerless and under full control of every male would drive me insane, but probably growing up in that day and age most women don't know any better.
To be honest I found this week's reading quite boring. There seemed to be a lot of repetition of the same ideas and many of them were cliché Christian ideas. Sex before marriage is wrong and divorce is a sin.
ReplyDeleteOne thing i did find interesting about the readings is how important Mary(the mother of God, not Magdalene) is and how much respect she is given back in the medieval period. 8.5 demonstrates this by saying that Mary is the only hope for man's salvation.
With Mary Magdalene I'm still not sure if she was a prostitute or just liked to have sex but what she did for the apostles seemed very generous. I was also not aware that Mary Magdalene went about preaching Christianity.
Abelard writing about the delight of sex, seems ironic now.
I did not expect the see that the "worth" of women decreased from the start of the medieval history to the end. I always assumed that the importance of women would have increased as the world advanced.
First of all I just want to say well done to Carolyn and Shannon :)
ReplyDeleteI in no way would want to live in the Middle Ages as a female, even if I was part of wealthy family. Women were oppressed and controlled by man, considered mainly for their bodies and procreation. Fathers married off their daughters to boost their status in society and to form a peace bond between families. Love or compassion was not involved in sanctity of marriage but rather for a social position.
I found the first readings a bit difficult to understand but nevertheless interesting because it was from a biblical point of view, the story of Adam and Eve.
The second reading focused more on the role of the women and their duties as wife. It is interesting to me how marriage was used as a peace pact between families and one of the female’s duties was to maintain the peace within the two families. In addition, once the female was married off their main duty or act of honour was to reproduce. Reiterating the point that women were only important if they were able to procreate.
I don’t think society would be more ‘successful’ if women were given a say, it just meant they were able to think for themselves and therefore, peace pacts between families, fertility rates and marriages would be low to non-existent. Although I find the way women were treated as unjust, their procreation methods expanded and established civilisations and therefore growth within the society would occur.
Carley
The idea that women were classified by their sexual status was both not surprising for the period but also seemed incredibly unjust to me. Labels such as ‘virgin’ have very different connotations in today’s society. Where this term was once viewed as the ideal for women (‘wife’ only being second to ‘virgin’), today it is a term either rarely used (holding less value) or when it is used it holds an almost negative undertone, for chastity is now not necessarily something to be proud of.
ReplyDeleteIt was interesting to read about Mary and the ‘unattainable’ ideal she was for women (both virgin and mother) but also about Mary Magdalene, the sinner. I found the section on the story of Mary Magdalene particularly interesting and how Christ forgave her for her sins: as sign that women could repent and seek forgiveness from God.
Although the text suggests that women at this time ‘suffered from fewer restrictions and enjoyed greater opportunities than in subsequent centuries’, I couldn’t even imagine living like this. Perhaps in comparison to other repressive time periods I would maybe be more inclined to believe that I could endure the these 'fewer restrictions', but after having grown up with so much freedom my modern mind can seem wrap around the idea of any significant form of repression.
I believe that if women were given a say the population would not have remained steady. Thanks to Eve in the Garden of Eden, the act of childbirth was incredibly painful and with this knowledge I’m not certain that given the choice women would necessarily procreate (or at least at the same level). Naturally as a female I believe women should have a say and that their general treatment was unjust, but from a historical point of view I believe it was necessary that these sorts of social expectations were in place simply so that the population could grow.
Really good post Shannon and Carolyn!
Great work guys.
ReplyDeleteI don't think there is any way to disagree with your statement that women had a "lower" social standing in the Middle Ages. Other people often point to regnant monarchical women, regnant empresses, ladies of the household or nuns, but (and I am assuming this) these are not all the occupations of the Middle Ages.
I think we quite often find a false dilemma with this specific historical argument. To point to Joan of Arc or a 14 hour working woman and say "that's the middle ages for women" is a gross oversimplification and generalisation.
I might say more later but I may have procrastinated a little over easter and havent really gathered my thoughts completely.
I think the question Shannon and Carolyn raised about how society would be different in the Middle Ages had women been given a say is an interesting one. The oppression of women in the middle ages is (in my opinion) largely due to the absolute morality of religious scripture and its pious followers, in this case the bible and all of Christendom. It was not until morality and law were thought out and rationalised by secular authorities (seperate to r. dogma) that anti-slavery, kindness to animals, gender equality, etc began to appear. So for the Middle Ages to allow the say of women you would be looking at a completely different one with features beyond women having equal opportunity, you would be looking at a society that is secular rather than theocratical (in other words, a world we largely associate with the 20-21st century West).
Delete-sorry for quick writing
Great post Shannon and Carolyn.
ReplyDeleteTogether you made a good argument, which I agree, women had a lower social status. Women were judged by their sexual status, a great focus of virginity. In some parts of Europe this extremity still exists, however for the majority this focus has lessened. I believe that society focuses more now on 'promiscuity' rather than 'virginity'. Our promiscuity still plays a major role in how we are viewed by society. Young, unwed girls who have children are typecast, royalty and politicians are judged for being intimate in public and sex tapes can create or ruin a celebrities identity. To an extent a girl's 'value' for suitability of marriage still depends on her promiscuity. Often media portrays this.
I find it interesting that essentially in Medieval Europe marriage was created so that children might be born decently and proper, to create family peace/ unities/ business and social gain/standing. Marriages still exist in todays society purely for these reasons, however I believe most people like to believe that it is as an expression of 'love' and 'unity'. I am not against the idea of gay marriage, however knowing its origins and the religion behind its creation it makes you wonder why they would want to be a part of it. I suppose it is because that even today as a society we only see love as legitimate if it is within the constraints of marriage.
Hi Guys,
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you in regards to your claim that the standards of behaviour women were expected to adhere were ridiculous. I found the part of the reading that talked about sexual apprenticeship quite interesting in this regard. In the examples given of these sorts of interactions (The maid welcoming the knight, and the peasants sharing a warm spot in the stable) it was the women that guided the proceedings. The women’s responsibility here was concerned with both the theoretical issues of defining an uncrossable threshold between, dream, desire and profession, and with the practical consideration of the avoidance of unwanted pregnancies. This constitutes another example of the importance of the maintenance of female integrity to upholding medieval society, and also serves to highlight the discrepancy between these standards and the status accorded women.
Because I’m submitting this late I have the benefit of having heard the lecture on this topic. Something I found particularly interesting in what Clare had to say on gender roles in medical society was that the change in women’s role in society in the early medieval period and later medieval period does not fir the conventional narrative of consistent improvement over time. The instability of early medieval society led to highly collectivised ventures and notions of the public as we know them didn’t exist, a result of this was that life in the period was comparably terrible for everybody. I found Clare’s point on how urbanisation actually marginalises women fascinating. I hadn’t previous considered how things like economic growth took away the necessity of women’s active participation in the economy.
Finally, I’d just like to note that I really enjoyed Klapisch-Zuber’s emphasis on bringing out the voices of voices of normal women rather than queens and important religious figures. While it would be possible to criticise this work as presenting a bleak picture of women in the middle ages I think it’s important that we realise that not many of us are in danger of labouring under the misconception that there was no exception to the marginalisation, exploitation and oppression of women. So because we read this work with a knowledge of the execptions, I think we can celebrate this work’s attempt to convey the daily pleasures and pains of life for normal people in this period.